I had 2 visitors from Indonesia to my home over the weekend. Catur, who is based in Singapore, came with Setiady, who lives in Java. We spent some time in my home before proceeding to Michael's home.
I can understand and speak a little Indonesian and Setiady can communicate a little in English. Catur, who is fluent in English and Indonesian, translated where necessary.
Setiady is extremely knowledgeable about shama breeding and he generously shared his breeding methods with Michael and I. He gave us details of his polygamous method of shama breeding that I found to be informative and interesting. Michael and I don't practice polygamous shama breeding and we don't intend to do so in the foreseeable future but we tucked the information away in our minds for future reference or use.
Setiady shared that, from his observations, if an egg is destroyed shortly after it is laid, it is the female that has done so. If the destruction takes place one or two days later, than the culprit is the male. To give the eggs a better chance of hatching, Setiady removes the male after the pair have mated. He said that in captive breeding where food is plentiful, the female is quite capable of looking after the chicks on her own.
Setiady also saw the chicks in my home and Michael's home that were about 11 to 12 days old. With the chicks to illustrate his points, Setiady, explained his method of sexing the chicks at this very young age. Amongst the points he made was that the calls of the chick will likely indicate its sex. Listen to the chick when it calls for food. If the voice is sharp and rising, the chick is likely to be a female. If the voice is lower and the call is shorter, it is a male.
Setiady was impressed with the song and character of one of Michael's first molt males from Alpha. As with other Indonesians I have met, Setiady likes the song that is sharp. He also liked Flame's son Rave (2nd molt), whose photo is below:
There were other bits of information about shamas that Setiady kindly shared with Michael and I. For instance, he said that when any of his shamas have an attack of fits, he would feed it a cricket laced with vitamin B complex. If the bird is able to swallow the cricket, it would likely be all right within 1/2 an hour or so.
Showing posts with label Breeding. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Breeding. Show all posts
Monday, May 26, 2014
Monday, May 12, 2014
Falcon, temporarily out of the breeding aviary
I think this is the first video recording that I have made of Skyhawk's son, Falcon.
Friday, January 17, 2014
Artificial Incubation - Part 3
[Trisno's letter of yesterday's date with my reply in red for easy reference]
Hi Trisno,
Glad to
see that you are having success with your artificial incubation. I answer
your queries below:
Hi
David,
How are
you? Hope you are OK.
Just
want to update and share my experiences with you related to my earlier email to
you.
1. I
have successfully hatched 1 shama egg (of 2 eggs) using the artificial
incubation. Thanks for your advices on this. On 6 January 2014, I took 2 eggs
from the nest and put them straight away in the incubator at the same day
because I assume the eggs have been for more than two days in the nest. Do you
think if this is the case I still have to wait for one to two days before
placing it to the incubator based on your explanation whereby a fresh egg
should not be immediately placed to the incubator?
DDS: I
think the advice that the eggs should be placed in the incubator only a couple
of days after it is laid is meant to imitate what happens when the female shama
itself broods the eggs. In the wild and
often in captivity, the female will not start to sit until the 2nd
last, or last, egg is laid. This means
that the first 2 eggs (out of say, 4 eggs) will not be actively incubated until
the 3rd or 4th egg is laid. I do not think it is critical to wait for 2
days before artificially incubating the eggs.
2. On
fifth day of incubation (10 January 2014), the electricity is off for more than
5 hours. On the second hours when the electricity is off, I put the eggs to my
old incubator (using 2 lamps) whereby the heat comes from the candle which is
lighted under the incubator. However, the temperature for sure becomes highly
uncontrollable. Do you have any similar experiences when the power is off?
DDS: In the
place where I stay, the electricity supply is reliable and I do not have experience
with power failure when incubating the eggs.
If this is a problem where you live, you may want to consider getting a
standby battery that will automatically switch on whenever there is a power
failure, such as what is available for computers.
It may
interest you to know that, as an experiment, I have artificially hatch poultry
eggs in a homemade incubator. I used an
oil lamp with a short wick that is placed in a box with holes in the
sides. I can keep the temperature
reasonably constant by the number, size and location of the holes. A tray of water is put in the box to provide
the humidity. As you no doubt know from
the lessons in school, hot rises and cool air will replace it. In effect, this is what a still-air incubator
does. The eggs will need to be turned by
hand several times a day. With shama
eggs, I think turning 3 to 4 times a days is sufficient.
3. Right
after the electricity was on, I candled the eggs for the first time which the
result was the moving embryos lived in those eggs. However, in the third
candling on 14 January 2014, I found one egg did not develop while the other
has developed and the embryo has been dark and filled the entire egg. Do you
think the shut power has affected the said egg? I understand that the “living
egg” must be separated from the “dead egg” which can arise a toxic gas. The
question will be how much is the affect for the "living egg" if it
remains to be incubated with the "dead egg" since this case is normal
in natural incubation?
DDS: The
electricity shut-down could have affected egg development. If the eggs are together for the length of
the incubation period, I do not think that the spoilt eggs will affect the
other eggs. As you note, in normal
incubation, all the eggs continue to remain together in the nest for the period
of incubation.
4. In
the morning of 16 January 2014 (in the beginning of 11th day),
the egg was successfully hatched (the photo is attached). On the first day, the
chick is fine and I do not have any problems with chick feeding based on your
advice.
DDS:
Wonderful. Just bear in mind not to
overfeed the chick. More chicks die from
overfeeding than underfeeding.
5. The
shama pair of this egg is indeed incredible. Previously, I have actually paired
this male shame with 5 females, but it always fails since the male always
fights and bites all the females. The funny thing when pairing these shamas,
this last female fights back to death and bites the male shama until the male
finally surrender and welcome the female. I get this female shama from my
friend in Aceh who is also an administrator of muraibatuaceh.blogspot.com.
Thanks Om Herry.
DDS: It is
a good sign when the male gives in to the female. He is much more powerful than the female and
can easily kill her if he chooses. I
have great admiration for Om Herry who is popularly known as HerryAcheh and I
regularly visit his blog. Herry is very knowledgeable about shamas and, I think, has contacts to obtain them from trappers. If you are
interested in breeding long-tailed shamas, Herry may be able to assist since
Acheh is the only province in Indonesia that is known to still have long-tailed
shamas in the wild.
6. If
you don’t mind, I will come back to you with more update on the chick.
Best regards,
David
Labels:
Breeding
Friday, December 20, 2013
Artificial Incubation - Part 2
Hi Trisno,
I refer to your email of today's date and answer your questions
below:
1. The movement of the chick.
When will be the best time for breeder to move the chick from the incubator or hatcher to brooder as the chick needs more humidity which may not be supplied by the incubator.
DDS: I transfer the chicks from the incubator to the brooder
immediately after hatching or shortly before hatching. As turning of the
egg is not required during the last 2 days before hatching and as the initial
temperature in the brooder is about 36 degrees, the egg that is about to hatch
can be transferred to the brooder shortly before the chick hatches.
2. Temperature
What are the suitable temperatures in the brooder from time to time for the chick based on the hours or days after hatching. I assume the temperature will change based on the chick's age.
DDS: I sat the brooder temperature at about 36 degrees for the newly
hatched chick and lower the temperature by 1 degree for each day thereafter
until 32 degrees. I do not lower the temperature below this. If the
chicks are cared for by the parents the mother will stop brooding the chicks
from the 3rd or 4th day. When I have chicks in the brooder, I keep them
there until they start to feather at about 4 to 5 days old.
3. First hand feeding
When will be the best time for first hand feeding to the chick? And what food do you usually give the chick for the first?
DDS: The first 2 days are the most critical. The breeder needs
to ensure that the chicks are not over-fed. It is more likely that the
chicks will perish from over-feeding rather than insufficient feeding.
Wait 2 or even 3 hours after the chick hatches before feeding it.
Start with a white (newly moulted) mealworm. Soften it by pressing
it then remove and discard the ends. Dip the mealworm in a light vitamin
B solution (for the first feed) then feed it to the chick. Feed the chick
every 1 1/2 to 2 hours with mealworms (crickets etc) that have been dipped in
water. Other than this, there is no need to feed water to the chick. If
the chick is healthy and eating well, you can practically see it growing
slightly bigger with each feed. Feed as much as the chick will eat each
time. The healthy chick will instinctively raise its head to be fed
in-between feeding times if it senses that you are nearby. Do not be tempted to
feed it in-between the feeding times. If the chick is eating and digesting
the mealworms well, it should eat about 1 1/2 mealworms by the 4th feed or so.
I then start to feed small crickets together with/ or without mealworms.
Soften the crickets then remove its head and legs. I dip the cricket in a
multi-vitamin, plus vitamin B, and mineral solution for the first 1 or 2 feeds
each day. I start adding guppies to the diet from the 3rd day. The
guppies need to be softened of course. I add frogs to the diet from the 4
day. I do not feed fish or frog for the first feed in the morning
and the last feed in the evening as the chicks may get an upset stomach.
The morning feed starts at 8 am or so and the last feed is at about 7 pm.
4. Other issues
I would appreciate if you could share any other information which must also be highlighted in the treatment of the newly hatched chick other than the above.
DDS: I have tried to cover whatever I thought you might need to
know. If you have any other queries, please feed free to ask.
Btw, I have treated all my shamas in breeding with nekton e and s for one week full. To my observation during this treatment, it still has no further development and they tend to be more quiet and calm in singing. What do you think of this?
DDS: The birds in the house are familiar with the songs of each
other and there will probably be little change in the songs and display.
To test if the form has gone up you will need to introduce a strange
shama to them.
For breeding aid supplement, do you buy in singapore or online purchase?
DDS: The Goodwill birdshop in Singapore carries the Vetafarm brand.
I also buy online. For quite sometime I have been purchasing the
supplements for myself and my birds from iherb.com. I mostly feed my birds with human
supplements nowadays that I get from iherb.com. It is the best online store for
vitamins and supplements.
Best regards,
David
Labels:
Breeding
Wednesday, December 18, 2013
Artificial Incubation - Part 1
Hi Trisno,
Glad to receive your email.
I reproduce your email below with my answers in red print after each question.
Keeping Shama is one of my hobbies. Just about 2 years ago, I started breeding Aceh Shama (known as Medan Shama), and recently I am intensively breeding more Shamas. In the progress, I am using an egg incubator due to the noisy sound resulted from a new house construction in the back of my house which causes most my Shamas throwing away their eggs.
For egg incubation, I use 2 units of Brinsea Mini Advance which are equipped with the digital thermometer without the humidity control. One serves as a setter and the other is a hatcher. I just bought these units from brinsea distributor in Singapore just last week.
Pursuant to the general review on the intended incubator, I am of the view that it does not have any significant humidity issue during the hatching period whereby breeder is sufficiently to add more water in the other pots (brinsea mini advance has 2 pots for water). I will later ask you on the humidity issue below.
I note that you also use Brinsea Octagon 20 which may have similar features with Brinsea Mini Advance. Therefore, I would be pleased if you could assist me with the below questions based on your experiences in shama breeding generally and using brinsea incubator specifically.
1. Incubation period. I note from your blogs, shama egg may start hatching on 11th day in artificial incubation which is nearly same with my breeding experience (12 days by natural incubation). However, when using an incubator, I think the range must be more definite so that I can identify when to stop egg turning. I have a doubt on this since mostly Indonesian breeders estimate incubation period of shama ranges from 12 to 14 days. To your experience in using incubator, when will you stop turning eggs?
For egg incubation, I use 2 units of Brinsea Mini Advance which are equipped with the digital thermometer without the humidity control. One serves as a setter and the other is a hatcher. I just bought these units from brinsea distributor in Singapore just last week.
Pursuant to the general review on the intended incubator, I am of the view that it does not have any significant humidity issue during the hatching period whereby breeder is sufficiently to add more water in the other pots (brinsea mini advance has 2 pots for water). I will later ask you on the humidity issue below.
I note that you also use Brinsea Octagon 20 which may have similar features with Brinsea Mini Advance. Therefore, I would be pleased if you could assist me with the below questions based on your experiences in shama breeding generally and using brinsea incubator specifically.
1. Incubation period. I note from your blogs, shama egg may start hatching on 11th day in artificial incubation which is nearly same with my breeding experience (12 days by natural incubation). However, when using an incubator, I think the range must be more definite so that I can identify when to stop egg turning. I have a doubt on this since mostly Indonesian breeders estimate incubation period of shama ranges from 12 to 14 days. To your experience in using incubator, when will you stop turning eggs?
DDS: The best way to determine the progress of the developing egg is to “candle” it. Asby sells a dedicated egg candler. If you don’t have this, a small torchlight will do. Even the “assist light” on the hand-phone is sufficiently bright to provide information on the developing egg. From the 4th day of artificial incubation, I may candle the eggs every 2 or 3 days. By the 9th day, the embryo should have developed into a dark mass that occupies the smaller part of the egg. When you see this, you should stop turning the eggs. If you want to preset the timing, I would do so at the end of the 9th day.
2. Commencement of egg turning
Some local breeders using the incubator(mostly chicken or ducks) suggest that the first day to fourth day, egg is not allowed to be turned for the stable temperature purpose. While brinsea incubators suggest that the eggs turning commences on the first day. What do you think of these?
2. Commencement of egg turning
Some local breeders using the incubator(mostly chicken or ducks) suggest that the first day to fourth day, egg is not allowed to be turned for the stable temperature purpose. While brinsea incubators suggest that the eggs turning commences on the first day. What do you think of these?
DDS: The books on artificial incubation suggest that the freshly laid bird’s eggs should not be placed in the incubator straight away but after one or two days and I observe this. I switch on the turning mechanism for my shama eggs immediately I place them in the incubator. I have never had any problem with egg turning.
3. Egg turning interval
What interval do you use for egg turning ranging from 30 to 180 minutes?
3. Egg turning interval
What interval do you use for egg turning ranging from 30 to 180 minutes?
DDS: Egg turning intervals on the Brinsea Octagon 20 is preset and cannot be adjusted. I have not timed it but it would seem to be about 30 minutes. My experience has been that the egg turning interval is not critical for shama eggs.
4. Egg turning angle
How long will the motor run for egg turning angle ranging from 1 to 20 seconds?
4. Egg turning angle
How long will the motor run for egg turning angle ranging from 1 to 20 seconds?
DDS: I am not sure of the question as I have not used the Mini Advanced. On the Octagon 20, the motor runs continuously with a slight pause at the end of each turn.
5. Incubation cooling
Do you use this feature? If yes, for how many hours or minutes for incubation cooling? Is it ok if I just turn off the incubator power for cooling purpose?
5. Incubation cooling
Do you use this feature? If yes, for how many hours or minutes for incubation cooling? Is it ok if I just turn off the incubator power for cooling purpose?
DDS: I do not use this feature at all. When I first started breeding shamas, I would be anxious if the female spent long hours in the day away from the nest. However, I found that so long as the female sat on the nest during the night, the eggs would hatch. This experience suggests that there is no harm in practicing some form of incubation cooling. However, I have never done so. Except for checking the water level in the incubator or the eggs every few days, I do not open the cover of the incubator.
6. Humidity
I note from your blogs that for hatching shama egg needs more humidity at about 80 to 85. This which I can not control with my brinsea mini advance since it is not equipped with humidity settings. As stated earlier, during the hatching period brinsea mini advance users are sufficiently to add more water in the other pot. If I wish to add more humidity level, can I add one cup full of water in the incubator? Is there any adverse consequence if more humidity occurs during the hatching period?
6. Humidity
I note from your blogs that for hatching shama egg needs more humidity at about 80 to 85. This which I can not control with my brinsea mini advance since it is not equipped with humidity settings. As stated earlier, during the hatching period brinsea mini advance users are sufficiently to add more water in the other pot. If I wish to add more humidity level, can I add one cup full of water in the incubator? Is there any adverse consequence if more humidity occurs during the hatching period?
DDS: I check and ensure that the temperature of the incubator is set at about 37.4 degrees each time I use it but I do not check the humidity in the incubator as I have found that there is sufficient humidity if I follow the manufacturer’s instructions. I check and top up the troughs of the Octagon 20 with water as necessary and my experience has been that the humidity is sufficient for the eggs to develop and hatch. Humidity becomes very important to the chicks after hatching. I make sure that the brooder has a humidity of 80 to 85. Otherwise, the skin of the chicks starts to dry out.
7. Fertility enhancer
If you don't mind, could you please share your most preferred fertility enhancer for shama breeding?
7. Fertility enhancer
If you don't mind, could you please share your most preferred fertility enhancer for shama breeding?
DDS: I have used several brands of fertility enhancer including the German brand that is sold by Asby. My preference is “Breeding Aid” by Vetafarm. However, surprisingly, it does not contain vitamin E so I additionally supplement this vitamin.
Wishing you success in your hobby,
David
Labels:
Breeding
Tuesday, November 26, 2013
Breeding Pied shamas
I acquired this pied female shama last year. It is not an albino as the eyes are not red.
The female was very wild when I got it and it was also afraid of the male. It has since molted and now seems much more stable.
Two days ago, I paired her with Falcon in my indoor aviary. The pair seem compatible and both visit the nest-box, sometimes together.
My aim is to breed pied shamas with the structure, song and display of my line of birds. With this female, I hope to have started on the right path.
The female was very wild when I got it and it was also afraid of the male. It has since molted and now seems much more stable.
Two days ago, I paired her with Falcon in my indoor aviary. The pair seem compatible and both visit the nest-box, sometimes together.
My aim is to breed pied shamas with the structure, song and display of my line of birds. With this female, I hope to have started on the right path.
Labels:
Breeding
Monday, November 18, 2013
2013 Season
My fifth generation line-bred white-rumped shama chick. It is 18 days old. It began learning to take food from the floor of the cage 4 days ago. Now, at 18 days of age, it is able to take food for itself from a tray on the floor of the cage. Hand-feeding is still necessary though not so frequently.
Let me share with you a story that a buyer of shamas from a breeder told me.
The seller of shamas had bred the species for only approximately 2 years. He was asked by the buyer of a shama from him for his views on line-breeding. He said he was against it. He gave as his reason that the 2nd generation would produce "nuts and fools" as he put it. Thankfully, this has not been my experience. In fact, I think that if the breeder knows what he is doing, the quality of line-bred birds should progressively improve.
To successfully line-breed, the breeder needs to start with stock that have all or most of the qualities that he intends to produce in his birds. The foundation stock should have as little defects as possible. Then only can the breeder hope to achieve his dreams. I can only assume that the above breeder did not have good foundation stock to start with and he is achieving very inferior results even with his 2nd generation.
Let me share with you a story that a buyer of shamas from a breeder told me.
The seller of shamas had bred the species for only approximately 2 years. He was asked by the buyer of a shama from him for his views on line-breeding. He said he was against it. He gave as his reason that the 2nd generation would produce "nuts and fools" as he put it. Thankfully, this has not been my experience. In fact, I think that if the breeder knows what he is doing, the quality of line-bred birds should progressively improve.
To successfully line-breed, the breeder needs to start with stock that have all or most of the qualities that he intends to produce in his birds. The foundation stock should have as little defects as possible. Then only can the breeder hope to achieve his dreams. I can only assume that the above breeder did not have good foundation stock to start with and he is achieving very inferior results even with his 2nd generation.
Labels:
Breeding
Wednesday, September 18, 2013
Outcross
This is Jazz. He is a cross between a twelve inch wild-caught and one of my captive bred females. Jazz has the character and song of his father but he does not have the tail length. His tails after the 2nd moult are about 10"-10 1/2".
When I have a repeat mating of birds from my own line, I can more or less guess how the offspring will turn out. It is different when birds are paired for the first time and especially when there is introduction of new blood.
I apologise for the shaky video. The camera was handheld but its anti-shake feature was spoilt.
When I have a repeat mating of birds from my own line, I can more or less guess how the offspring will turn out. It is different when birds are paired for the first time and especially when there is introduction of new blood.
I apologise for the shaky video. The camera was handheld but its anti-shake feature was spoilt.
Labels:
Breeding
Saturday, July 17, 2010
Sunday, April 11, 2010
Temperature for hatching eggs
Dear David:
Hi , I have been reading most of your threads in the forums and your blogs for 3-4 years, and i decided to try my breeding program this year in my home town Hong Kong.
I bought 2 wild shamas last year from M'sia and they molted with no problems. I guess maybe because I'm using Masuri Insect Food so that they have enough vitamin. I paired them in March and they started to build the nest on 31th Mar. I did not go close to watch them as they are quite scared of people so I cannot confirm there eggs in the nest until I do the cleaning today. There are 3-4 eggs I guess as I just take a quick look inside the nest.
I would like to ask if you think the temperature in our place will be okay for the eggs to hatch ? Now is between 19-21 degrees. (the breeding cage is placed outdoor)
Do you suggest I should transfer the chicks to indoor when they hatched ?
Sorry to bother you , but I have not anyone who has experience to ask around my area.
Hope to hear from you soon.
Best Regards
Stanley
Dear Stanley,
I am happy to assist.
It is often thought that eggs develop only when a parent is sitting. This is not so. Typically, the developing process starts when the temperature is above 21 degrees Centigrade. While development starts at this temperature, the developing process is too slow and if the temperature is not substantially increases the embryo will die. Typically for shamas, my experience in hatching the eggs in incubators is that a temperature of 37.4 degrees seems to be ideal.
When the parent sits, she (some males will share the job) will be able to adjust the temperature in the nest to maintain a constant temperature. If the temperature is too high, she will partially stand so as to lift her breast from the eggs. If the temperature is too low, she will sit tighter on the eggs.
As eggs will start developing on their own at temperatures above 21 degrees C, I would guess that a temperature that varies between 19 to 21 is not too low for the eggs to hatch. The parent will merely sit tighter and possibly leave the nest for shorter periods. The fact that the female has chosen to lay the eggs at this time and sit on them suggests that she does not consider the temperatures to be too low.
When the chicks hatch, I would suggest that they be left with the parents until they fledge. The chicks are tiny and it is difficult to hand-feed them without experience. In a tropical climate like Singapore's the parent will stop sitting on the chicks after the third day of hatching. Thereafter, the chicks body heat will provide their own warmth. By the time they leave the nest at about 11 days, the chicks will be fully feathered and able to withstand the cold.
Wishing you all the best.
David
Hi , I have been reading most of your threads in the forums and your blogs for 3-4 years, and i decided to try my breeding program this year in my home town Hong Kong.
I bought 2 wild shamas last year from M'sia and they molted with no problems. I guess maybe because I'm using Masuri Insect Food so that they have enough vitamin. I paired them in March and they started to build the nest on 31th Mar. I did not go close to watch them as they are quite scared of people so I cannot confirm there eggs in the nest until I do the cleaning today. There are 3-4 eggs I guess as I just take a quick look inside the nest.
I would like to ask if you think the temperature in our place will be okay for the eggs to hatch ? Now is between 19-21 degrees. (the breeding cage is placed outdoor)
Do you suggest I should transfer the chicks to indoor when they hatched ?
Sorry to bother you , but I have not anyone who has experience to ask around my area.
Hope to hear from you soon.
Best Regards
Stanley
Dear Stanley,
I am happy to assist.
It is often thought that eggs develop only when a parent is sitting. This is not so. Typically, the developing process starts when the temperature is above 21 degrees Centigrade. While development starts at this temperature, the developing process is too slow and if the temperature is not substantially increases the embryo will die. Typically for shamas, my experience in hatching the eggs in incubators is that a temperature of 37.4 degrees seems to be ideal.
When the parent sits, she (some males will share the job) will be able to adjust the temperature in the nest to maintain a constant temperature. If the temperature is too high, she will partially stand so as to lift her breast from the eggs. If the temperature is too low, she will sit tighter on the eggs.
As eggs will start developing on their own at temperatures above 21 degrees C, I would guess that a temperature that varies between 19 to 21 is not too low for the eggs to hatch. The parent will merely sit tighter and possibly leave the nest for shorter periods. The fact that the female has chosen to lay the eggs at this time and sit on them suggests that she does not consider the temperatures to be too low.
When the chicks hatch, I would suggest that they be left with the parents until they fledge. The chicks are tiny and it is difficult to hand-feed them without experience. In a tropical climate like Singapore's the parent will stop sitting on the chicks after the third day of hatching. Thereafter, the chicks body heat will provide their own warmth. By the time they leave the nest at about 11 days, the chicks will be fully feathered and able to withstand the cold.
Wishing you all the best.
David
Labels:
Breeding
Monday, March 8, 2010
Eggs do not hatch
Hi David,
I have come across your web-site and decided to breed the shama.
I have been breeding Shama since last year but without success. Last year, the female had sat on the nest twice with two eggs and three eggs. On both occasions, it did not hatch. This year, I replaced the male shama and paired with the same female shama. Again, the female sat on the two eggs for three weeks and it did not hatch. Would you be able to advise the reason of not been able to hatch? What should I do to increase the chances of breeding successfully. I have provided the pair with live foods, eg. Cricket, frogs, pineapple beetles and meal worms.
I look forward to your reply. Thank you in advance.
Desmond __
Hi Desmond,
When eggs do not hatch, break the eggs to check the contents. If there is a dead embryo, the reason is likely that there were insufficient vitamins for the embryo to complete its growth. If you do not see an embryo but the egg smells, it means that the embryo died at a very young age. An infertile egg will not smell.
An egg could be infertile for a number of reasons. Perhaps the pair were not fully ready. Transfer one of the birds into a cage and place it next to its mate. The pair should be very excited. If they are not, it suggests that they are not fully ready for breeding. Remove the nestbox and feed them until they come into breeding condition. The food may not have been good enough. The variety of food that you feed seems OK. Try adding a good vitamin supplement to the diet. Of special importance for breeding are vitamins A, E and B.
The male shama, like most male birds, does not have a penis. During mating, the vents of the male and female meet each other and the male squirts his semen into the female. If there are too many feathers around the vents, they cannot lock and the semen does not enter the female. Try trimming the feathers around the vent of both the male and female birds.
David
Labels:
Breeding
Wednesday, October 15, 2008
Shama Chicks In Holland - Update 15th October 2008
Hi David,
I am happy to let you know that the chicks are fine now. Today, this afternoon they fledged.
After I started giving the chicks extra calcium en vitamin D the one that could not use it’s legs properly started to get better very quickly.
(the vitamin powder I used to dust the insects contains enough vitamin B because it is made largely of brewers yeast so I don’t think that was the problem).
Besides mealworms and crickets and worms I also gave them small fish. This way I made their diet more varied and healthy I hope.
The chicks are well feathered and have long and strong legs. I am happy to send you a picture of my two birds I raised from birth. I think they are a male and a female.

Thank you again for you advice.
Best regards,
I am happy to let you know that the chicks are fine now. Today, this afternoon they fledged.
After I started giving the chicks extra calcium en vitamin D the one that could not use it’s legs properly started to get better very quickly.
(the vitamin powder I used to dust the insects contains enough vitamin B because it is made largely of brewers yeast so I don’t think that was the problem).
Besides mealworms and crickets and worms I also gave them small fish. This way I made their diet more varied and healthy I hope.
The chicks are well feathered and have long and strong legs. I am happy to send you a picture of my two birds I raised from birth. I think they are a male and a female.
Thank you again for you advice.
Best regards,
Sunday, October 12, 2008
Shama Chicks in Holland
Letter dated 10th October 2008
Dear Mister De Souza,
I am presently handrearing two young shamas. They are seven days old now and kept at 32 degrees celcius during the day. They seem fine at this temperature. If the temperature is 34 degrees they start stretching their necks and open their mouth so I think that is too warm?
When I come and check them in the morning they seem a little cold and lethargic. Is this normal?
What temperature should I keep them at night when they are resting????
They are growing well on crickets, mealworms and worms.
Thank you very much for your answer/advice.
Best regards,
(from Holland)
Reply
Hi __,
Here in the tropics, the mother will stop brooding the chicks after the third night. When hand-feeding the chicks indoors, I usually provide heat for another 2 days before switching off the brooder temperature.
The night outdoors temperature in Singapore may drop to 23 or 24 degrees celsius. If the chicks are indoors, the temperature will be slightly higher as the doors and windows where the chicks are will be closed. Unless the nights in Holland are colder at this time, you may wish to turn off the brooder temperature.
I hatch my shama eggs at 37.4 degrees celsius and reduce the temperature to 36 degrees 2 days before the eggs are due to hatch. When the newly hatched chicks are placed in the brooder, the temperature is maintained at 35 degrees for a day before it is reduced by 1 degree a day. When the chicks start to feather, the temperature is turned off. I may then continue to keep them in the brooder or transfer them with the nest to a cage.
As you have noted, if the chicks stretch their necks when they are resting, the temperature is too warm. On the other hand, if they are lethargic, the temperature is probably not warm enought.
A temperature of 32 degrees at night should not be too low for 7 days old chicks. I would guess that the temperature in the brooder is not accurate and the actual temperature may be much lower than 32 degrees. I use a mercury thermometer to check the actual temperature in the brooder and you may wish to try this.
Another possibility is that you may be wrong in thinking that the chicks are lethargic in the morning. Hand-fed chicks usually eat less for the first meal of the day and this is normal.
Regarding diet, it is beneficial to provide vertebrates in addition to feeding non-vertebrates such as crickets, mealworms and worms. I feed small guppies and froglets. If these are not available, calcium fortified with vitamin D3 should be added to the food. Otherwise, the bones of the chicks may not develop properly.
I will be happy to answer any other questions you may have.
Best regards,
David
Letter dated 12th October 2008
Hi David,
I followed your advice on the rearing-temperature and everything is going fine. The chicks are developing the sheaths of their feathers now. I checked the temperature with a good thermomether and it turned out that the temperature in the brooder is 2 degrees lower than shown on the display!.
I keep the chicks by 28 degrees celsius and that is fine for them.
Yesterday I bought small tropical fish for them. They really liked them and it makes a good source of calcium.
I have another question if I may.
Today I changed the bedding of the nest for a towel because they threatened to swallow the cocofibre as I fed them.
I noticed that one chick has a good strong grip in its feet and strong legs. The other one has a week grip and has week legs.
Could this be the result of a deficiency in the food. A vitamin deficiency perhaps???
(I dust the insects I give with a mineral en vitamine powder)
What is your oppinion???
Best regards
P.s.
I gave the chick with the bad grip in it's feet and that did not stand up calcium and vitamin D3 to help it calcify its bones. My vet told me the chick has shortage of calcium and this gives him painful bones which causes him not wanting to stand.
What is your opinion?
Reply
Reply
The cause of the chick being unable to use its legs could be due to a deficiency of calcium. As mentioned in my earlier email, mealworms, crickets and worms do not have sufficient calcium in them. If this is the main food of the birds, calcium supplementation will be necessary. Another sign that calcium is lacking in chicks is a condition known as "rubber beak" in which the beak is soft and pliable.
Calcium is also needed to assist the bird to contract its muscles. A lack of calcium could therefore result in the bird not being able to contract its thigh muscles. This could be what is affecting your chick.
Vitamin B is required for the proper functioning of the nerves, so I would give a good vitamin B Complex supplement to the birds. I find that vitamin B supplementation is more necessary when feeding live food then when feeding mainly dry food.
There is of course the possibility that the cause of the problem may be genetic. If so, there is nothing much that can be done. I hope this is not the case.
Best regards,
David
Dear Mister De Souza,
I am presently handrearing two young shamas. They are seven days old now and kept at 32 degrees celcius during the day. They seem fine at this temperature. If the temperature is 34 degrees they start stretching their necks and open their mouth so I think that is too warm?
When I come and check them in the morning they seem a little cold and lethargic. Is this normal?
What temperature should I keep them at night when they are resting????
They are growing well on crickets, mealworms and worms.
Thank you very much for your answer/advice.
Best regards,
(from Holland)
Reply
Hi __,
Here in the tropics, the mother will stop brooding the chicks after the third night. When hand-feeding the chicks indoors, I usually provide heat for another 2 days before switching off the brooder temperature.
The night outdoors temperature in Singapore may drop to 23 or 24 degrees celsius. If the chicks are indoors, the temperature will be slightly higher as the doors and windows where the chicks are will be closed. Unless the nights in Holland are colder at this time, you may wish to turn off the brooder temperature.
I hatch my shama eggs at 37.4 degrees celsius and reduce the temperature to 36 degrees 2 days before the eggs are due to hatch. When the newly hatched chicks are placed in the brooder, the temperature is maintained at 35 degrees for a day before it is reduced by 1 degree a day. When the chicks start to feather, the temperature is turned off. I may then continue to keep them in the brooder or transfer them with the nest to a cage.
As you have noted, if the chicks stretch their necks when they are resting, the temperature is too warm. On the other hand, if they are lethargic, the temperature is probably not warm enought.
A temperature of 32 degrees at night should not be too low for 7 days old chicks. I would guess that the temperature in the brooder is not accurate and the actual temperature may be much lower than 32 degrees. I use a mercury thermometer to check the actual temperature in the brooder and you may wish to try this.
Another possibility is that you may be wrong in thinking that the chicks are lethargic in the morning. Hand-fed chicks usually eat less for the first meal of the day and this is normal.
Regarding diet, it is beneficial to provide vertebrates in addition to feeding non-vertebrates such as crickets, mealworms and worms. I feed small guppies and froglets. If these are not available, calcium fortified with vitamin D3 should be added to the food. Otherwise, the bones of the chicks may not develop properly.
I will be happy to answer any other questions you may have.
Best regards,
David
Letter dated 12th October 2008
Hi David,
I followed your advice on the rearing-temperature and everything is going fine. The chicks are developing the sheaths of their feathers now. I checked the temperature with a good thermomether and it turned out that the temperature in the brooder is 2 degrees lower than shown on the display!.
I keep the chicks by 28 degrees celsius and that is fine for them.
Yesterday I bought small tropical fish for them. They really liked them and it makes a good source of calcium.
I have another question if I may.
Today I changed the bedding of the nest for a towel because they threatened to swallow the cocofibre as I fed them.
I noticed that one chick has a good strong grip in its feet and strong legs. The other one has a week grip and has week legs.
Could this be the result of a deficiency in the food. A vitamin deficiency perhaps???
(I dust the insects I give with a mineral en vitamine powder)
What is your oppinion???
Best regards
P.s.
I gave the chick with the bad grip in it's feet and that did not stand up calcium and vitamin D3 to help it calcify its bones. My vet told me the chick has shortage of calcium and this gives him painful bones which causes him not wanting to stand.
What is your opinion?
Reply
Reply
The cause of the chick being unable to use its legs could be due to a deficiency of calcium. As mentioned in my earlier email, mealworms, crickets and worms do not have sufficient calcium in them. If this is the main food of the birds, calcium supplementation will be necessary. Another sign that calcium is lacking in chicks is a condition known as "rubber beak" in which the beak is soft and pliable.
Calcium is also needed to assist the bird to contract its muscles. A lack of calcium could therefore result in the bird not being able to contract its thigh muscles. This could be what is affecting your chick.
Vitamin B is required for the proper functioning of the nerves, so I would give a good vitamin B Complex supplement to the birds. I find that vitamin B supplementation is more necessary when feeding live food then when feeding mainly dry food.
There is of course the possibility that the cause of the problem may be genetic. If so, there is nothing much that can be done. I hope this is not the case.
Best regards,
David
Tuesday, September 30, 2008
Captive Breeding - 30th September 2008
The post below was first published in October 2007
We need to assume that the focussed breeder knows what he is doing. Lets say that the knowledgeable shama breeder is trying to breed for specific features. History has shown that in every instance where man has tried over time to produce birds and animals to emphasize certain traits that he desires, he has always succeeded. Ultimately, the wild birds and animals of the species cannot compare meaningfully with the bred birds with regard to the features that man has bred into his birds.
The canary has been captive bred for several hundred years. Is there anyone today who can reasonably claim that the song of the wild canary is preferable to the canary as we know it? The song canary illustrates that we can, over time, produce the type of song that we prefer. Thus the Spanish Timbrado has the bell-like voice that is characteristic of the type; the Roller has the whispering song that can hardly be heard across the room, and the Waterslager has the somewhat wild song that I especially like.
BTW, I should mention that I have always gone out of my way to learn from those who had something to teach. In my younger days, I used to spend weekends and sometimes weekdays at John Yim's home to learn about the shama. When I was interested in breeding canaries some 25 years ago, I took the train to Yorkshire, England, on a winter's day to have tea and discuss breeding Rollers with a champion breeder.
Let's move on to another feature - courage and aggression. Selective breeding has produced the various fighting dogs. The bull dog in times past was bred to fight the bull. It's present short snout was produced so that it could have a better hold on the bull. These dogs would throw themselves on the bull and many would be killed. Then there are the fighting cocks that will continue to try to finish off their opponents even when death is rattling in their throats.
Perhaps we look for speed in our animals. Here again we have examples from the animal and bird world that show us what can be achieved. We have greyhounds, race horses and racing pigeons. For the purposes for which they were bred and trained, I don't think that their wild relations can come anywhere close to them.
I could go on and on but I think I have provided sufficient examples of what has been achieved to put beyond doubt that where man has wanted badly enough to breed certain characteristics into his animals and birds he has always succeeded.
Now, what do I want to have in my shamas. Long tails is only one of the features. My concentration is no longer on tails. In other words, it is not my desire to produce birds with longer and longer tails. A tail length of 13" or so is sufficient for what I have in mind. Remember, the bird's physique needs to have balance and proportion and an exaggerated tail length will upset it.
Just as important as long soft beautifully curving tails, are song, display, courage, aggression and stamina. I will not go into detail on these features at present but all need to be present in the shama for it to be the bird of my dreams. If any feature is lacking, my dream shama is the poorer for it.
I am applying my mind as to how each of the features can be improved through selective breeding. I am conscious of the benefits and pitfall of line-breeding and inbreeding and take steps to avoid the evils. I still need much time to breed true the features that I desire but I already have with me birds that have much that I am looking for and which encourage me to think that I am on the right track.
We need to assume that the focussed breeder knows what he is doing. Lets say that the knowledgeable shama breeder is trying to breed for specific features. History has shown that in every instance where man has tried over time to produce birds and animals to emphasize certain traits that he desires, he has always succeeded. Ultimately, the wild birds and animals of the species cannot compare meaningfully with the bred birds with regard to the features that man has bred into his birds.
The canary has been captive bred for several hundred years. Is there anyone today who can reasonably claim that the song of the wild canary is preferable to the canary as we know it? The song canary illustrates that we can, over time, produce the type of song that we prefer. Thus the Spanish Timbrado has the bell-like voice that is characteristic of the type; the Roller has the whispering song that can hardly be heard across the room, and the Waterslager has the somewhat wild song that I especially like.
BTW, I should mention that I have always gone out of my way to learn from those who had something to teach. In my younger days, I used to spend weekends and sometimes weekdays at John Yim's home to learn about the shama. When I was interested in breeding canaries some 25 years ago, I took the train to Yorkshire, England, on a winter's day to have tea and discuss breeding Rollers with a champion breeder.
Let's move on to another feature - courage and aggression. Selective breeding has produced the various fighting dogs. The bull dog in times past was bred to fight the bull. It's present short snout was produced so that it could have a better hold on the bull. These dogs would throw themselves on the bull and many would be killed. Then there are the fighting cocks that will continue to try to finish off their opponents even when death is rattling in their throats.
Perhaps we look for speed in our animals. Here again we have examples from the animal and bird world that show us what can be achieved. We have greyhounds, race horses and racing pigeons. For the purposes for which they were bred and trained, I don't think that their wild relations can come anywhere close to them.
I could go on and on but I think I have provided sufficient examples of what has been achieved to put beyond doubt that where man has wanted badly enough to breed certain characteristics into his animals and birds he has always succeeded.
Now, what do I want to have in my shamas. Long tails is only one of the features. My concentration is no longer on tails. In other words, it is not my desire to produce birds with longer and longer tails. A tail length of 13" or so is sufficient for what I have in mind. Remember, the bird's physique needs to have balance and proportion and an exaggerated tail length will upset it.
Just as important as long soft beautifully curving tails, are song, display, courage, aggression and stamina. I will not go into detail on these features at present but all need to be present in the shama for it to be the bird of my dreams. If any feature is lacking, my dream shama is the poorer for it.
I am applying my mind as to how each of the features can be improved through selective breeding. I am conscious of the benefits and pitfall of line-breeding and inbreeding and take steps to avoid the evils. I still need much time to breed true the features that I desire but I already have with me birds that have much that I am looking for and which encourage me to think that I am on the right track.
Monday, August 25, 2008
Shama egg development
This morning I “candled” the five eggs in Icon’s 6th nest. The pair is used to me and did not mind me removing and replacing the nest-box. The candling confirmed that all the eggs are fertile and that about 90% of the development has been completed. The mother commenced sitting only after the 5th egg was laid so I expect that all the eggs will hatch sometime tomorrow.
In olden days, to check if an egg is fertile or developing properly, a hen’s egg would be held close to a candle flame so that its light shone through the egg. By shading the upper part of the egg it could be seen if the egg is fertile and the extent of the embryo’s development. Candles are no longer used to check egg fertility. Nowadays, we use electric torches especially designed for the purpose but we still refer to the process as candling.
The exterior shell of a shama egg is mottled and darker than a hen’s egg. Quite a strong light is therefore required to be able to “look” into it and it would not be possible to do so with a candle. I use an Egg-lume from Brinsea. When held against an egg, its high intensity beam of light can be directed into the egg to light the inside and enable the egg’s development to be checked.
From 1 to 3-4 days after the female commences to brood, it cannot be seen if the egg is developing. In other words, shining a light through the egg will show no difference between a 3 days old egg and a one newly laid. From about the 4th day, the beginnings of veins barely can be seen in the broader part of the egg. These appear as thin red lines meandering over the inside shell. Also, by the 4th day, it can be seen that an air sac is starting to form at the top of the broad part of the egg. This sac will continue to grow in size and by the time the chick is ready to hatch it will cover about 25% to 30% of the egg. The chick will use the air in the sac to take its first breath of air when it starts to hatch.
By the 5th or 6th day, veins can be seen over much of the broad part of the egg. Be patient, gently hold the Egg-lume or other light source against the shell and you will see what looks like a pulsating heart within the egg expanding and contracting about once every second.
My shama eggs usually hatch when the female has sat for 10 to 11 days. Towards the end of the period, the chick will be “sitting” in the narrow part of the egg. The chick will appear as a dark mass in the lower 75% of the egg. The veins that were earlier so clearly visible have all retreated into the mass that is the chick and they can no longer be seen.
At this time the egg must be handled very gently. The egg itself does not contain any calcium and all the calcium that is required for the developing embryo is drawn from the egg-shell. Because of this, soft-shell eggs have insufficient calcium for the growing embryo which therefore has no chance for proper development. For the same reason, the shell has become very thin by the time the chick is about to hatch and even very light pressure may dent the shell.
When the chick is fully developed and ready to emerge from the shell, it will use its beak to pierce through the membrane separating it from the air in the sac. It will breathe the air from this source. With its egg-tooth, it then chips at the shell to create a tiny hole to in further air for it to breathe. This hole will be along the membrane of the air sac. The chick then slowly rotates its entire body around the shell, all the time gradually chipping away much like a can-opener until it has chipped through almost the entire circumference of the egg, then with several heaves it throws open the top part of the shell and emerges as shown below:
In olden days, to check if an egg is fertile or developing properly, a hen’s egg would be held close to a candle flame so that its light shone through the egg. By shading the upper part of the egg it could be seen if the egg is fertile and the extent of the embryo’s development. Candles are no longer used to check egg fertility. Nowadays, we use electric torches especially designed for the purpose but we still refer to the process as candling.
The exterior shell of a shama egg is mottled and darker than a hen’s egg. Quite a strong light is therefore required to be able to “look” into it and it would not be possible to do so with a candle. I use an Egg-lume from Brinsea. When held against an egg, its high intensity beam of light can be directed into the egg to light the inside and enable the egg’s development to be checked.
From 1 to 3-4 days after the female commences to brood, it cannot be seen if the egg is developing. In other words, shining a light through the egg will show no difference between a 3 days old egg and a one newly laid. From about the 4th day, the beginnings of veins barely can be seen in the broader part of the egg. These appear as thin red lines meandering over the inside shell. Also, by the 4th day, it can be seen that an air sac is starting to form at the top of the broad part of the egg. This sac will continue to grow in size and by the time the chick is ready to hatch it will cover about 25% to 30% of the egg. The chick will use the air in the sac to take its first breath of air when it starts to hatch.
By the 5th or 6th day, veins can be seen over much of the broad part of the egg. Be patient, gently hold the Egg-lume or other light source against the shell and you will see what looks like a pulsating heart within the egg expanding and contracting about once every second.
My shama eggs usually hatch when the female has sat for 10 to 11 days. Towards the end of the period, the chick will be “sitting” in the narrow part of the egg. The chick will appear as a dark mass in the lower 75% of the egg. The veins that were earlier so clearly visible have all retreated into the mass that is the chick and they can no longer be seen.
At this time the egg must be handled very gently. The egg itself does not contain any calcium and all the calcium that is required for the developing embryo is drawn from the egg-shell. Because of this, soft-shell eggs have insufficient calcium for the growing embryo which therefore has no chance for proper development. For the same reason, the shell has become very thin by the time the chick is about to hatch and even very light pressure may dent the shell.
When the chick is fully developed and ready to emerge from the shell, it will use its beak to pierce through the membrane separating it from the air in the sac. It will breathe the air from this source. With its egg-tooth, it then chips at the shell to create a tiny hole to in further air for it to breathe. This hole will be along the membrane of the air sac. The chick then slowly rotates its entire body around the shell, all the time gradually chipping away much like a can-opener until it has chipped through almost the entire circumference of the egg, then with several heaves it throws open the top part of the shell and emerges as shown below:
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